Apr 22 2005, 06:51 PM
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Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with nVidia or any of these companies. My opinion is my own. This is all gained from about 100 hours of research into the subject. There are those whose jobs / lives revolve around such things, and I defer to their expertise. I could be making things up, please verify anything you read before spending your money.
Understanding Power Requirements. "It worked yesterday!" First, you need to understand why your current one won't work. And why some people blindly saying you need 20A on the 12V can't possibly be right unless they know your setup. See, since the beginning till about when P3s and Thunderbirds ruled, everything was a 5V load besides drives. PCI came along and 3.3V became important. AGP cards took all their current from there, and the PCI/AGP power specification was pretty high - 25W total per slot. Then things started getting faster and requiring more, but still in the average computer nothing used the 12V line other than peripherials, so manufacturers started adding these "booster" connectors to thier motherboards and video cards. This was a great idea, since it wasn't being used that much anyway. Flash foward to the present. Every modern processor is 12V. Even if your Athlon XP is 5V, if your motherboard has that 12V booster connector, well, your processor is 12V too. But the 5V-heavy power supply cannot do it. I mean, here's a device that gets no respect. You bought one and it worked. You've probably upgraded system components multiple times since you did. And what was good then is barely passable now. Along come cards requiring serious 12V current and your power supply cannot source it... a serious problem. So now it's reversed. Having tons of current available on the 5V line is useless. That 400W power supply that was overkill with it's 12A 12V line a few years ago is now barely able to turn on your Athlon 64 with it's power-assisted AGP or PCIe graphics card. On top of this, there's dirty power. Sometimes you have enough but it's nasty. It sags. It ripples. It plain drops out. The difficult part is it might not show up until you start really drawing current from it, like 3D gaming with a super-duper video card. Then it crashes. You reboot, run every test known to man, it behaves fine. But then you tax it again, the rails sag, and another lockup / reboot / whatever happens. So you need a new one. Let's shop! --=--=--=--=--=-- Power Supply Manufacturer TOP 10 (or TOP 5) Here's something you might not know. Most companies that sell power supplies don't actually make them. They slap a sticker on someone elses unit and sell it as their own (commonly referred to as "rebadged"). While many of them have their own features added to try and niche out a spot in a crowded market, this usually doesn't hurt it's performance and might even improve it functionally, not just add shiny eye candy. Many though, it's just eye candy. And many do absolutely nothing... they just slap a sticker on the side. --=--=--=--=--=-- #1a Topower (some TTGI - Super-Flower, OCZ, EPower/Tagan, RaidMax, Vantec, ACI) #1b FSP - Fortron Source Power (Fortron, Sparkle, Cooler Master*, Zalman, Aopen) #1c CWT - Channel Well Technology (Antec, Lead Power, Enermax, Xclio, Turbolink) While these top three encompass more than the re-badges I've named, you can usually bet on a solid performer if you pick one of them. It's highly debatable which are better than others, of course. But all in all, everyone has had pretty good experiences. Not suprisingly, they are priced accordingly. None of them in the 400W range are going to be under $50. If your power supply is one of the above, chances are you can trust both the unit itself and it's claims on wattage per line. #2a Sea Sonic #2b Wintech (Ultra X-finity) #2c Acbel Polytech (Stateside, just the Cooler Master True Power) Same with these, a bit more esoteric. If you can afford a Sea Sonic these have the best efficiency of any consumer switching PSU for computers. You'll pay for it up front, but your electric bill will be less in the long run. #3a Sirtec (Chieftec, Enlight, ThermalTake, High Power) #3b HEC - HeroIchi Electronic Co. (HEC, CompuCase) #3c AMS - American Media Systems (Mercury) Here you start finding dissention in the owners. Some claim it's the best in the world, some wouldn't let their dog run Windows 3.11 on one. Some of them have great reputations (TT & HEC) but the problem is a "squeaky wheel" one - it's hard to know just how good/bad things are when only people with problems post. #4a Youngyear (Aspire, Logisys, MGE, Ultra X-Connect, Rosewill) #4b ATNG (Coolink, CoolMax, Rosewill, StarTech) Now we're into budget territory. Maybe it's just a quality control issue; some people love them but most hate them, and from bad personal experiences. I personally wouldn't touch them. They should work, but no one will be suprised if it smokes itself and takes your motherboard with it. They rarely come close to what their ratings state, very poorly constructed. (but usually colors or chrome and UV sleeved and colored Molex's and LED fans!) These for the most part are toys, although you might get lucky. Not all of them are, but it does take more effort in sifting through them than it's worth. #5 CRAP! (L&C, Deer, Allied, Eagle, CodeGen/Foxconn, EverPower, Maxpower) If you believe one of these things will power your computer, I have a 7-band underdash amplifier/equalizer that's 250W+250W that I'll sell you for $5. You'll love it. Really, if you have one of these supplies, don't mention it to us. Just silently toss it out and buy one in the #1 category. --=--=--=--=--=-- NV4TEHWIN's research-derived suggestions. I don't suggest anything under $50. Without apology. The Xclio 450W is the cheapest active PFC dual 12V lines you can touch. Fans run after shutdown to remove residual heat. It's a Channel Well and it's only $53. This is definitely "Author's Choice" (3.3V @ 32A, 5V @ 30A, 12V @ 32A 15/17 dual) In fact, go buy this right now and stop reading. The Athena Power P4ATX series 500W is one dollar more in price and it's a beasty Topower PSU with dual 80/120mm fans. No PFC though. (3.3V @ 35A, 5V @ 47A, 12V @ 28A). I highly recommend Topower anything. An EPower 450P5-E1 Jaguar is a very nice Topower unit for $70. Has a couple bonus features like EMI filter on the molex connectors and the case/PS fans will run 2 minutes after turn-off to help cool out the residual heat. ( 3.3V @ 28A, 5V @ 45A, 12V @ 28A) [[ Also - if you need a new case and don't mind the kiddie gamer look check out the EPpower "Warrior" Gaming Case, $78 and you get the same spec 450W Topower power supply which would go for $45, mounted in a "Transformer" looking case (the same case as a Logisys JANUS but with an etched window and an RFI shield.) It's even cheaper when you consider you save another ~$8 on shipping separates. ]] * There's the gorgeous Cooler Master Real Power 450W (3.3V @ 20A, 5V @ 25A, 12V @ 22A 12/10 dual) which is a Acbel Polytech unit, but much of the $80 price is for the name and that cool panel-mount current meter. Acbel's aren't easy to come by in the States. For that same $80 you could grab an OCZ ModStream 450W, with it's sleeved modular connections and some nice specs (3.3V @ 28A, 5V @ 45A, 12V @ 26A) and a great 3 year warranty that you'll never get to use. You can find all the above at NewEgg. Just above that is the Super-Flower 550W 14cm at about $85, massive, solid, silent. (3.3V @ 35A, 5V @ 50A, 12V @ 30A) (try CoolerExpress). In that same power range and price but dual 12V rails is the Fortron Blue Storm 500W. (3.3V 30A, 5V 28A, 12V @ 30A 15/15 dual). And hey it's blue, and I mean ALL blue. When you hit $100 that's amore in PSU land, you'll be hard-pressed to land a crap unit if you stick to category #1 above. Dreaming of better fortunes, if I had a spare $150 to spend on a power supply, what would it be? Proabably a Sea Sonic S12 600W @ $159, probably the most efficient power supply you can find in this range. (3V @ 30A, 5V @ 30A, 12V @ 36A 18/18 dual). PDF Datasheet. But if you're going to spend that much... and especially since I'm posting on an nVidia board, I must mention the PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 850 SLI... oh sure, it's got SIXTY FOUR AMPS of 12V power on 4 rails. It doesn't have a publically disclosed price yet and I don't want to know. They also make a tiny, baby little thing next to it, being the only nVidia approved SLI PSU actually on the market, the Turbo-Cool 510 Express/SLI. (3.3V @ 30A, 5V @ 50A, 12V @ 34A). It's only $229 direct with a 5 year warranty. A beautiful beast, indeed. If you're in the market for something bigger, do your own research. --=--=--=--=--=-- Notice that I've left hundreds of them off my list. It's not a thing of predjudice or overly crappy supplies; they're just not worth mentioning. You may have one and it may work great, but if you're buying one just stick to the big guns. So much of the confusion surrounding all this has much to do with the available choices... there's just too damn many. And no, I'm not suggesting an Enermax or Antec. Just because you've heard it too much. Now you know they're both CWTs, and both excellent supplies. I don't have to suggest them. One final note: Capitalism drives the world. So when you see great, (I mean really, really great) supplies for a price that you think is too low, it is. Also these manufacturers are producing them in the 10s of thousands, so you'll find plenty of yesterday's ludicrously expensive units today for pennies on the dollar. Don't be tempted. They'll have gobs of 5V current but you'll have that pesky 12V problem all over again. Buy current. Buy current current. Well, you get it. |
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NV4TEHWIN The Who and Why of Power Supplies Apr 22 2005, 06:51 PM
blues02 Thanks for the tips! I will be buying a new o... Apr 22 2005, 07:41 PM
-=DVS=- Bumb for great thread , this should be sticky h... Apr 27 2005, 12:46 AM
blues02 I bought a Athena Power P4ATX series 500W from New... Apr 27 2005, 12:47 PM
blues02 QUOTE (blues02 @ Apr 27 2005, 07:47 AM)I boug... May 18 2005, 01:04 PM
mik000 Are Hiper PSUs any good? May 22 2005, 11:07 AM
NV4TEHWIN Thanks DVS. Another personal research project that... Apr 29 2005, 01:05 PM
blues02 That powersupply is a beast compared to my old one... Apr 29 2005, 02:43 PM
NV4TEHWIN Hey, it's apparently possible... check out ric... Apr 29 2005, 07:39 PM
pagliaccio QUOTE (NV4TEHWIN @ Apr 29 2005, 11:39 AM)Hey,... Apr 29 2005, 09:32 PM
user0001 I've been drooling over the XClio PSU for a fe... May 13 2005, 02:48 AM
OldeCrow @NV4TEHWIN
Excelent Post! This is one of the... May 22 2005, 09:46 PM
Clyde28 Thanks for a great post. I purchased a CoolMax 55... Jun 12 2005, 01:52 PM
RisingPhoenix120 >_> Was planning on buying that Rosewill of... Jun 12 2005, 08:04 PM
volvino First of all, excellent post. I too am building a... Jun 12 2005, 10:44 PM
TDB999 QUOTE (volvino @ Jun 12 2005, 05:44 PM)First ... Jun 14 2005, 01:03 AM
YYZ NV4TEHWIN, I must disagree with you on the Superfl... Jul 22 2005, 07:18 AM
stone_cold_Jimi Vantec Stealth VAN 520A here - no problems at all ... Jul 23 2005, 08:38 PM
ENERMAX QUOTE (NV4TEHWIN @ Apr 23 2005, 02:51 AM)CWT ... Oct 31 2005, 09:31 AM
rego001 i just got a pc power and cooling turbo cooling 5... Oct 31 2005, 09:38 AM
uziclip I've just read this old post on PSU's and ... Mar 20 2006, 11:38 PM
GPU BURNER wish i could help but i use the 4a (just above cra... Mar 20 2006, 11:45 PM![]() ![]() |
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