Nvidia sentinel ? Power related slow 8800GTX XXX Options

[Icecapuk]

Hi Guys, Im a noob to the site, just want to pick brains as i think i know where the problem lies.
PC Spec :-
Intel Quad Q6600 @2.4ghz
2 x 1Gb OCZ SLi ready ram PC8500
Asus Striker Extreme ( Bios 1301)
XFX 8800GTX XXX (630/2000)
1 x soundblaster audigy 2
2 x 250gb sata
2 x pioneer dvdrw
Antec TPQ-1000w PSU.
Thermaltake Xaser III case with 7 x 80mm fans.

After a full install if winxp pro 32bit and all drivers i am hit with an Nvidia sentinel error stating that there is not enough power being sent to the graphics card or the graphics card is seated incorrectly. Well this isnt true as it has been removed and reseated umpteen times. Drivers have been uninstalled and drive cleaner has been run to clear out any excess drivers left in the system and alternative drivers have been used after a full reboot. This sentinel just reappears when the system reboots and by appearing this lowers the clocks on my Graphics and after about 5-10 mins a loud screeching noise appears from the graphics card. I have even stripped the pc to bare minimum. Now i presume that the graphics card has a built in sensor that if no power is connected to the 2 power points of the card the sensor emits an ear piercing noise. The thing is 2 x 6 pin pci e power connectors are connected. Voltage on thses have been tested @ 12.1v via a multimeter. I have spoken to Antec who said that the 1000w should work with this card and were kind enough to tell me what i have already tried (2 x 6 pin and 2 x 6+2 pin pci-e pins and a mixture of both) checked all connections on the board 20+4 pin and 8 pin 12v and agreed to send me an RMA.xls form which has now been sent back and still awaiting a reply. I have also been intouch with XFX who asked the same questions and have also offered me an RMA. Now the chances of both of these being faulty is very remote.
The 4 x 12v dedicated rails on the Antec psu are all 18A and does not combine where as my graphics card box states that a minimum of 30A is required for this card (per 12v rail i imagine) and with mine set at 18A <------- now this is where i think the problem lies but it is a little expensive to buy another psu with 30-36A rails just to test. I also presume as this card is already overclocked from stock 575/900 this requires a lot more power. My question is has anyone experienced this problem as the forums are full of these nvidia sentinels some ppl say is graphics cards some ppl say is psu's but no definative answers. Some ppl have changed the psu and still have the same problem so is this down to ampage of the rails that exist on the psu. Others have changed to a different psu and found it all worked etc. others have been directed back to the graphics cards tech teams. What would be ideal is that graphics card manufacturers actually put a recommended psu manufacturer model on the box or even in the manual as i am sure they will use dedicated psu's at the factory for testing purposes before they are shipped. I am currently looking at the thermaltake 1200w as 2 of the 12v rails are 36A each and im sure this will give me ample power and remove this nasty Nvidia sentinel once and for all. Comments appreciated thanks
Anyone else using the Antec TPQ-1000 with XFX 8800GTX XXX ?

Paul U.K.

[momentum77]

I'm having a similar problem. I'm wondering if the problem is with my motherboards sensors that pick up the PCI-E voltage.

Intel Core2 E6600 @3.0Gz
2x 1GB Corsair Dominator 1066
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R
BFG 8800GTX OC (600/1400)

The requirements are for a combined 32A or more. Since im plugging two PCI-E connectiors, with 18A each over the 12.1V. That should be plenty.

I'm running the GigaByte EasyTune app which detects hardware info, and its not reporting anything for the PCI-E freq or voltage. Same for the nTune nvidia application. So I'm wondering if its a problem with the way the motherboard is reporting the volatge on the PCI-E connectors. Does anyone know what the sentinel is using to make its judgement?

[japamd]

I have a MSI 8800GTX OC (610/2000) and an Antec TPQ 850w, and have the same issue as you.

Previously I had a 2900XT on the same rig, no power issues and the 2900XT is power hungry than 8800GTX.

Maybe our cards are defective?

Full rig
C2Q Q6600 (stock)
2 x 1 GB RAM
Antec TPQ 850w
3 x 250 GB SATA 2
1 x DVD-RW
MSI 8800GTX OC

This post has been edited by japamd: Oct 15 2007, 10:01 PM

[Prohibition]

problem= striker extreme enough said. you could use riva tuner to downclock it..but i dont know why you would want too.

[japamd]

Well, it seems to be a Antec issue with 8800GTX *only*, 8800Ultra and other G80 based gfx cards are not affected.

Manufacturer Response:In fact, the TPQ-850 has more than enough power to run an 8800GTX and is SLI certified (posting on slizone.com coming soon). Unfortunately there is what amounts to a recently identified communications problem between some units of the power supply and the firmware on NVIDIA's card that causes an error message to be generated. Antec apologizes for any inconvenience, and is working with NVIDIA to isolate the precise cause and identify the solution as quickly as possible.

Please note that this does not affect the 8800 Ultra or any NVIDIA card besides the 8800GTX, and neither is every Quattro affected. We will shortly have revised units that solve the problem for those who have encountered it, and will gladly swap units for those customers. If you have further questions or need help with any Antec product, please contact Antec Customer Support. Antec is one of the few industry companies to offer toll-free live customer support, which can be reached at 1-800-22-ANTEC.

[abraxax]

Hi Guys, Im a noob to the site, just want to pick brains as i think i know where the problem lies.
PC Spec :-
Intel Quad Q6600 @2.4ghz
2 x 1Gb OCZ SLi ready ram PC8500
Asus Striker Extreme ( Bios 1301)
XFX 8800GTX XXX (630/2000)
1 x soundblaster audigy 2
2 x 250gb sata
2 x pioneer dvdrw
Antec TPQ-1000w PSU.
Thermaltake Xaser III case with 7 x 80mm fans.

After a full install if winxp pro 32bit and all drivers i am hit with an Nvidia sentinel error stating that there is not enough power being sent to the graphics card or the graphics card is seated incorrectly. Well this isnt true as it has been removed and reseated umpteen times. Drivers have been uninstalled and drive cleaner has been run to clear out any excess drivers left in the system and alternative drivers have been used after a full reboot. This sentinel just reappears when the system reboots and by appearing this lowers the clocks on my Graphics and after about 5-10 mins a loud screeching noise appears from the graphics card. I have even stripped the pc to bare minimum. Now i presume that the graphics card has a built in sensor that if no power is connected to the 2 power points of the card the sensor emits an ear piercing noise. The thing is 2 x 6 pin pci e power connectors are connected. Voltage on thses have been tested @ 12.1v via a multimeter. I have spoken to Antec who said that the 1000w should work with this card and were kind enough to tell me what i have already tried (2 x 6 pin and 2 x 6+2 pin pci-e pins and a mixture of both) checked all connections on the board 20+4 pin and 8 pin 12v and agreed to send me an RMA.xls form which has now been sent back and still awaiting a reply. I have also been intouch with XFX who asked the same questions and have also offered me an RMA. Now the chances of both of these being faulty is very remote.
The 4 x 12v dedicated rails on the Antec psu are all 18A and does not combine where as my graphics card box states that a minimum of 30A is required for this card (per 12v rail i imagine) and with mine set at 18A <------- now this is where i think the problem lies but it is a little expensive to buy another psu with 30-36A rails just to test. I also presume as this card is already overclocked from stock 575/900 this requires a lot more power. My question is has anyone experienced this problem as the forums are full of these nvidia sentinels some ppl say is graphics cards some ppl say is psu's but no definative answers. Some ppl have changed the psu and still have the same problem so is this down to ampage of the rails that exist on the psu. Others have changed to a different psu and found it all worked etc. others have been directed back to the graphics cards tech teams. What would be ideal is that graphics card manufacturers actually put a recommended psu manufacturer model on the box or even in the manual as i am sure they will use dedicated psu's at the factory for testing purposes before they are shipped. I am currently looking at the thermaltake 1200w as 2 of the 12v rails are 36A each and im sure this will give me ample power and remove this nasty Nvidia sentinel once and for all. Comments appreciated thanks
Anyone else using the Antec TPQ-1000 with XFX 8800GTX XXX ?

Paul U.K.

i had a same problem with my second 8800 gtx ,,but i update my bios to 1305 and everything is fine..i have the same motherbored as you,,,
hop this can help....cheack and let me know.

This post has been edited by abraxax: Oct 16 2007, 03:51 AM

[Prohibition]

and? you quotted him but didnt say nothing about the quote.

just glad they got it workin and will get a free power supply if they cantget the firmware fixed. now thats steppin up to the plate

[abraxax]

what is this thing with powe supply...i have a 680 watt and never had any problems,,as u can c i oced everythin..i have 3 dvdeom,and 6 blue lid fan,,so i dont think power supply is a problem.

[Run N. Gun]

First of all, thank you to the folks who contributed in this thread. This thread confirmed that I had the exact same problem as abraxax and I wasn't really going nuts. I have firsthand experience with this same problem and have documented it (complete with photos) here:

http://www.overclock.net/power-supplies/25...tml#post2888809

I wanted to come back and share what I knew and will be sure to share Antec's response with everyone. There is HOPE! I can't wait to have this problem solved for all of us.

Run N. Gun

My System Specs
CPU: E6850
Motherboard: ASUS P5K Deluxe WIFI-AP
Graphics Card: eVGA 8800 GTX 768MB Superclocked
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Tracer 2GB PC2-8500
Hard Drive: WD Raptor X 150GB 10K SATA II, WD 500GB SATA II
Optical Drive: SAMSUNG SH-S203B/BEBN 20X SATA DVD Burner
Power Supply: Antec Quattro 850 + Thermaltake Power Express 250W (to supplement the GPU)
Display: Dell 20.1" Widescreen
Case: Antec 900
Sound Card: CREATIVE LABS X-Fi Platinum Fatal1ty Champion
Speakers: Logitech 5.1
Mouse: Razer Tempest
Mouse pad: Razer eXactMat
Keyboard: not decided
Operating System: Win XP Pro
CoolingCPU: Thermalright Ultima-90 w/120mm Scythe 120MM
Case fans: 1x200mm, 5x120mm fans

This post has been edited by Run N. Gun: Oct 23 2007, 04:33 AM

[EliteKiller]

The 4 x 12v dedicated rails on the Antec psu are all 18A and does not combine where as my graphics card box states that a minimum of 30A is required for this card (per 12v rail i imagine) and with mine set at 18A <------- now this is where i think the problem lies but it is a little expensive to buy another psu with 30-36A rails just to test.

The graphics card mfg's min. requirements are for the entire system and not just the video card. Even then they are typically on the high side to cover poor quality psu's and their inflated power ratings. The 8800GTX can only consume 225W max (2x PCIe @ 75W ea. + 75W for the PCIe slot) so 225/12=18.75A. The +12V rails on the Quattro will trip at 22A.

FWIW the Antec EarthWatts 380W would easily power your system. Of course the load would increase fan rpm's and load up the psu, but it's perfectly capable of doing so since the EarthWatts is able to output full rated power @ 50C.

Read more: http://www.overclockers.com/articles1452/

Summary: You don't need a 1000W psu for your rig even if you decide to add a 2nd 8800GTX. Run N. Gun's rig should consume even less power which would be ~300W under full torture load.






This post has been edited by EliteKiller: Dec 1 2007, 05:31 PM

[Gr3G04]

ok, i got an antec PSU, 8800 GTX. It works ok in Vista, don't get the sentinel after the 169.2* drivers.

XP is a different story. i get the sentinel, but it doesen't seem to hinder my performance.

I tried to install a distrobution of linux called Sabayon, wouldn't let me run "startx" coz it said i not got enough power/power connectors in.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

----
friday 17:00:

I just tried a BIOS Flash on my P5KC to 0903, and i still get the error in XP. not retried linux yet though
----
I got onto antec support, they responded real quick... asked what i had plugged in etc..... awaiting reply

This post has been edited by Gr3G04: Jan 4 2008, 05:26 PM

[Gr3G04]

still waiting for a reply from Antec.

In the mean time i bought myself a Thermaltake VGA PSU, no errors yet on any OS.

Antec really should address the problem

[AntecRep]

Antec�s TruePower Quattro power supplies, the TPQ-850 and TPQ-1000 have way more than enough power to run an 8800 graphics card and are SLI certified by NVIDIA. The actual issue with the graphics card and System Sentinel is a communication issue. The Supply has plenty of power, but the card is not handling it properly.

This problem is not only with the Antec supply. Other brands of power supply are having these issues as well. There have been reports of power supplies from Corsair, ThermalTake, Enermax, Rosewill, OCZ, XCLIO, and Silverstone not working with these cards as well.

NVIDIA SLI certified our power supply to work with the cards. Months after the launch of their card we started to have problems with the 8800GTX and the Quattro supplies. We implemented a fix at this time because we were the only company with the issue. This fix worked for any user having the 8800GTX issue.

Then NVIDIA released the (G92) core series of graphics cards GTS/GT. These cards sometimes do not work with either the original or fixed version of our power supply. We have been researching the issue, and NVIDIA has been testing this issue in their labs. The problem appears to be a hardware interaction. With the right (wrong?) motherboard/graphics card/PSU, this issue occurs. Many combinations work, however (we�ve got an off-the-shelf Crosshair+8800GT 512+Quattro 850 system running perfectly in our lab), so changing any of the components could possibly make the system work. It seems that a bios fix/flash is going to be the final solution, but we don�t have any definite answers at this time.

[420Ryme]

Wow... power to the people! WTG Antec, it's nice to see a company step up to the plate for once. I just got an 8800GTX today and have one of your power supplies. I'll let you know if it works tomorrow when I get the damn 6pin adapters.

[wolverinedo]

Ok while we're on this topic I've gotta ask a few questions that have been bugging me for a while and I just can't seem to find answers for:

1) How do you know which components are being powered by which rail (in a multiple rail PSU) ?
ie I assume the motherboard power must come from one rail - which hopefully is the only thing on that rail (?)
but then how do you know how to separate components to get an even drain on each other rail?
ie I'd like to have one rail for GPU 1, one rail for GPU 2, and then the third rail for fans, HDD, DVDROM etc

2) If the combined output of any PSU is already capped at 240va (which it is by law), then how can a 1000watt PSU put out more 'power' than a 700watt PSU?
For example there are 700watt PSUs that have 4 x 12v rail each having a max load of 18A, and there are also 1000watt PSU's with the same setup with the same output figures ???


Thanks - hopefully there is an electrician amongst us here!!

Cheers

[AntecRep]

Let me see if I understand the questions. I'll go through them using a recent and technically explicit (yet somehow still understandable) review of the EarthWatts power supply.

What rails go to what connectors?
Short answer: The designers can have reasonable expectations for what will happen with certain types of connectors and allocate power capacity accordingly.
Example

When is 18A on a 12V rail NOT 18A on a 12V rail?
Short answer: The power supply can choose to exceed that rating if the embedded logic does not decide the situation is unsafe and trip a protection. Antec designs our power supplies so that if you don't have things on exactly the right rail, there's no problem.
Example

Volts and Amps and Maximums
Watts depend on volts and amps. Volts x Amps = Watts
I don't know what the usual fuse is in a UK fusebox, but the average US circuit breaker is 15A @ 110VAC.
That comes out to 15A*110V=1650W If you have a 12VDC voltage source providing 18A, that comes out to 12V*18A=216W If all of the 12V rails on a PSU can share 62 amps, then the 12V rails can output 12V*62A=744W. If that's on a 1000W PSU, it leaves 1000W-744W=256W left to share between the 3.3V and 5V rails. If each of those rails are rated at 30 amps, lets see how the rest of the math works out.
3.3V*30A=99W and 5V*30A=150W
Add those up for 249W and you have a smidge left over for -12V and +5VSB which use very little.
It all adds up nicely until you get to 1600W. I have worked with plenty of power supplies for corporate server room equipment and they require dedicated circuits with higher amperage ratings. They also tend to have funny plugs so that you don't go blowing circuits by accident.

May not have answered you completely, but hopefully that's a point in the right direction.

[geckoguru]

Nice OC wolverindo! i guess that P35-ds3r is doing the job for you

[rcthardcore]

You're right on the money, AntecRep. As a Master Electrician I concur with your assessment.